Post by pcgamer72 on May 19, 2010 14:22:38 GMT -5
Hey guys. I posted this on Warseer a few minutes ago, and I thought I would post it here as well. Of course, I now have to monitor Warseer closely to defend my post against all the idiots who respond simply to call me a whiner and quitter. Alas, I had to share my opinion. Here is what I said:
"Alright, I am one of those who do not like many of the changes that seem nearly upon us. I have played Fantasy for over 5 years now, and it has developed into a significant activity and consumer of time in my life. I travel to several out of state tournaments/events a year, play in local tournaments every month, and play pickup games fairly regularly as well. I describe my relationship with the game in order to make it clear that I am not simply sweeping the game away because it doesn't matter too much to me or giving up before I really get started. I love Warhammer, and this is obvious by the time I put into it.
That being said, I cannot believe that some of these changes are seemingly going to be implemented. Warhammer has always been a game that rewards good strategy and tactical play along with experience. So, a player could gain an upper-hand by playing enough games that facets like movement and distance guessing became second-nature. The game rewarded solid tactics.
Now, however, 8th Edition is going to bring us random movement and risk-free measuring. What is the point of adding random charge ranges to the game? Besides making it so that games are decided more by luck than ever before. Pre-measuring? Yes, I understand that with random movement this doesn't affect charges as much, but it now affects shooting and magic. Shooters will always be in range of their target (if at all possible) and spells will never be let through because the dispeller believes they aren't in range. It's just silly. And no, I don't care about "realism." We are playing a wargame which involves fantastic, imaginary creatures and races. I much more care about playing a fun, tactical, balanced game than having a "realistic" battle.
The last thing that really turns me off is "True LOS." Once again, I understand the "realism" of this, but terrain has always played such an important role in Warhammer. Many units rely on cleverly using terrain to help themselves get to the battle or to protect themselves from war machines. On a slight side note, I am in favor or ranked infantry units taking *less* of a penalty for moving in terrain. In 7th Edition, it was too severe.
There are some smaller things that I don't like as much, such as no partials for template weapons, but I can *live* with it. Sure it's annoying for some armies which rely on being big or spread out (Ogres, Wood Elves) in order to limit the number of wounds they take, but I understand that it makes things a bit easier in a way that doesn't hamper tactical play excessively. I'm also not a fan of the more simplistic moving, but I think it will be better than I view it as in my mind right now, so I'm willing to concede this point. Also, skirmishers having a formation drives me loopy. I could probably get past this though.
Do not get me wrong, there are many areas that I believe the developers of 8th Edition are enhancing. Magic seems like it will be much improved. I love the lore-specific bonuses. I don't mind stepping up (even though it impacts my Wood Elf army greatly). I am glad that 40X40s are getting their own unit-type classification and ranks. I'm also a fan of limiting the number of saves any one model can take for each wound. The changes to Fear and Terror are probably good for the game overall and thus I support them (although it will affect some armies negatively, I do believe the net benefit will be positive). Return to percentages? Heck yeah! Not as many silly character/deathstar armies.
I guess what I'm trying to get across is that I am seriously going to consider leaving the hobby if some of these things are really in 8th Edition and impact the game as they appear they will right now. I am presenting my message in this manner in hopes that people don't just shoo me away because I am complaining. As I have displayed, I am a fan of many of the changes coming to Warhammer. However, some of the changes are going to negatively impact the game so much, in my opinion, that I don't believe that I will find enough enjoyment in playing as to justify continuing. I have many interests in life, and I am sure that there are a large number of current players who have other interests as well. Yes the new game might attract new players, but it saddens me that some of the veterans will be gone. I suppose this is a chance to move on to other things which might bring even greater joy to these people though, so perhaps it will work out in the end.
In conclusion, let me just say that I am truly happy for those who requested these types of changes and will enjoy the game from here on out. Roll well my friends! "
"Alright, I am one of those who do not like many of the changes that seem nearly upon us. I have played Fantasy for over 5 years now, and it has developed into a significant activity and consumer of time in my life. I travel to several out of state tournaments/events a year, play in local tournaments every month, and play pickup games fairly regularly as well. I describe my relationship with the game in order to make it clear that I am not simply sweeping the game away because it doesn't matter too much to me or giving up before I really get started. I love Warhammer, and this is obvious by the time I put into it.
That being said, I cannot believe that some of these changes are seemingly going to be implemented. Warhammer has always been a game that rewards good strategy and tactical play along with experience. So, a player could gain an upper-hand by playing enough games that facets like movement and distance guessing became second-nature. The game rewarded solid tactics.
Now, however, 8th Edition is going to bring us random movement and risk-free measuring. What is the point of adding random charge ranges to the game? Besides making it so that games are decided more by luck than ever before. Pre-measuring? Yes, I understand that with random movement this doesn't affect charges as much, but it now affects shooting and magic. Shooters will always be in range of their target (if at all possible) and spells will never be let through because the dispeller believes they aren't in range. It's just silly. And no, I don't care about "realism." We are playing a wargame which involves fantastic, imaginary creatures and races. I much more care about playing a fun, tactical, balanced game than having a "realistic" battle.
The last thing that really turns me off is "True LOS." Once again, I understand the "realism" of this, but terrain has always played such an important role in Warhammer. Many units rely on cleverly using terrain to help themselves get to the battle or to protect themselves from war machines. On a slight side note, I am in favor or ranked infantry units taking *less* of a penalty for moving in terrain. In 7th Edition, it was too severe.
There are some smaller things that I don't like as much, such as no partials for template weapons, but I can *live* with it. Sure it's annoying for some armies which rely on being big or spread out (Ogres, Wood Elves) in order to limit the number of wounds they take, but I understand that it makes things a bit easier in a way that doesn't hamper tactical play excessively. I'm also not a fan of the more simplistic moving, but I think it will be better than I view it as in my mind right now, so I'm willing to concede this point. Also, skirmishers having a formation drives me loopy. I could probably get past this though.
Do not get me wrong, there are many areas that I believe the developers of 8th Edition are enhancing. Magic seems like it will be much improved. I love the lore-specific bonuses. I don't mind stepping up (even though it impacts my Wood Elf army greatly). I am glad that 40X40s are getting their own unit-type classification and ranks. I'm also a fan of limiting the number of saves any one model can take for each wound. The changes to Fear and Terror are probably good for the game overall and thus I support them (although it will affect some armies negatively, I do believe the net benefit will be positive). Return to percentages? Heck yeah! Not as many silly character/deathstar armies.
I guess what I'm trying to get across is that I am seriously going to consider leaving the hobby if some of these things are really in 8th Edition and impact the game as they appear they will right now. I am presenting my message in this manner in hopes that people don't just shoo me away because I am complaining. As I have displayed, I am a fan of many of the changes coming to Warhammer. However, some of the changes are going to negatively impact the game so much, in my opinion, that I don't believe that I will find enough enjoyment in playing as to justify continuing. I have many interests in life, and I am sure that there are a large number of current players who have other interests as well. Yes the new game might attract new players, but it saddens me that some of the veterans will be gone. I suppose this is a chance to move on to other things which might bring even greater joy to these people though, so perhaps it will work out in the end.
In conclusion, let me just say that I am truly happy for those who requested these types of changes and will enjoy the game from here on out. Roll well my friends! "
